Identity Digital (previously Donuts) DPML Webinar Interview
Learn more about the expanded coverage in domains and features of DPML and how it can help your brand monitor and enforce your intellectual property online here.
Transcript:
Anthony: Welcome everybody to the third in our series of webinars. Today we have a special treat for you guys where I’m bringing you a little fireside chat and Q&A with Matt Bamonte from Identity Digital (previously Donuts). We hope you enjoy this topic. Before we start a little bit about 101domain, you maybe know as existing clients of ours, we are a domain name registrar. We focus on all types of TLDs, both generic domain names sponsored by ICANN as well as country codes in literally every country around the world. So we’ve been very involved in the new gTLD program and DPML is one product that resonated with many of our clients as it launched nearly five years ago. So coming up on the five year anniversary, we thought it’d be good to bring that in, to do a little Q&A, to get updated on what’s going on with DPML today, what the future of it looks like, and just to give us some insight into what’s going on with the workshop over at Identity Digital. Welcome Matt.
Matt: Yeah. Thank you very much, Anthony. A pleasure to be here, really excited to talk about one of my favorite subjects, not only Identity Digital as the company and kind of where we are and where we’re going, but also as Anthony pointed out, the focus is on DPML or protective mark’s list. Something we’re very proud about launching. When our registry, when we first started almost six years ago now and you know, five and a half, almost six years later, it’s still a success and doing exactly what it was set out to do. And that was to prevent cybersquatting in the new TLD space, which I know is important to a lot of the audience members here today.
Anthony: Great. Thanks for joining us, Matt. So I’m going to start by asking just a little bit about the Identity Digital story. Many of our customers and a few practitioners who are on this interview or will listen later, they’ve been following Identity Digital (previously Donuts) since the inception of Identity Digital in conjunction with the new gTLD program for quite a while now. And I know there’s been some big events and some big happenings over at Identity Digital in the last year. So can you tell us a little bit about that?
Matt: Yeah, it’d be happy to. And Yeah, you’re right. Anthony there. There has been quite a lot of changes here in the last year and a half, a year as well at Identity Digital. But it’s all been really good. And yeah, I mean we had a terrific 2018, it’s hard to imagine we’re already at the end of the year here, ready for 2019. But we expanded our TLD portfolio, which is always something that was important to us, looking for unique opportunities to either partner with or acquire additional TLDs and just strengthen our portfolio. One of the things we pride ourselves on is kind of differentiating ourselves from the other registries is our vertical TLD flight. I think that’s one thing that really separates us out from the other folks and adding the likes of that .TRAVEL was just a really good undertaking and really adds value to the portfolio.
And I know as we saw about a year and a half ago we went and we acquired Rightside registry and that was towards the middle of 2017 and that instantly expanded our portfolio by well over 40 names. And I think in total we’re up to about 241. And as I said in my opening, we acquired a great TLD in .TRAVEL to add to the vertical play and some of our TLDs. And coming up here very soon, .FAN is another one that we own and .CHARITY, which hopefully you guys have seen go through Sunrise and General Availability and we’re having successes there too which just adds a lot. And again, as we move forward we’ll be, will continue, I think, to have an open mind and the executive team to have an open mind and you know, to partner up on initiatives but also to grow through acquisitions. So that’ll be something exciting to look out for in the next year and years to come.
Anthony: Alright, so the Rightside purchase, I’m sure kept you guys busy for quite a while and I also saw in the news that you recently went private, well actually you were a private company already, but the company changed hands in some of the boundaries at step downs with the changing of the guard and the executive team over there. Is there anything you can tell us about the company’s approach going forward to business and what they’re focusing on?
Matt: Yeah absolutely. And, yeah, you’re right Anthony. The four founders that originally started our company have sidestepped aside, and you know, they founded our company in 2010. They are four very respected people and veterans in the industry. And even today we’re fortunate still to have Brooks also for a co-owner, Erik, excuse me, a co-founder, he remains an investor today. As Anthony alluded to we were sold to a private equity firm that’s based up in Boston, Massachusetts and by a company called Avery Partners and they’re a top-tier private equity firm and if you go to their website, and I’ve done some research myself, they’ve invested heavily in technology which is really going to, I think, excite us in the future and, you know, look to other opportunities in the technology space just to add to the value of domain names, maybe being a little bit more creative on how we use domain names in future and obviously especially around new TLDs, new top-level domains.
And then just to close out. And again, I know you’ve probably seen it in the news, we announced that we made a new hire at the CEO level, Akram Atallah. He is well known in the industry with his experience in years, at ICANN in a high leadership role, he’s only been with us for a couple of weeks. But I know he’s looking forward to really digging in and just giving us a really clear path and strategy for the future, which all really affects everyone on this call myself, Anthony, you know being from the Registrar level but also the end user and the client. So I’m looking forward to that and a right now business as usual and we’re just forging ahead and look forward to things to come.
Anthony: Awesome. I for one am really excited to see what comes out of all these changes. I’ve seen in the past when companies tend to change hands or go private that it’s a sign of bigger things to come. So we’re, we’re anxiously awaiting to see what comes out of that. I want to switch gears a little bit to what’s going on in the overall market. I have my opinion and our sales team and accounts team talking to our clients, talk a lot about what’s going on in the new gTLD the market as well as the overall market. We have perspective around country codes which act a lot differently than new gTLDs so we would like to get your thoughts on, you know, how the new gTLD market is from your perspective. You know, which gTLDs are winning, what you had mentioned, focusing on specific verticals and how all of this is affecting trademark holders. And for many on this call, the question is what are brands and trademark owners, currently and still doing around that.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s great Anthony. And yeah, there’s a couple of different components here that I could hit on. Let me just first start with marketing or kind of our marketing plans and kind of where that stands right now. You know, from my perspective, being kind of in front of the Registrars, it’s really business as usual. And business as usual, what I mean is, you know, we’re constantly looking at creative ways to properly retail names getting in front of the end user. You know, one of our challenges is to have these new TLDs being seen out there because if they’re not being seen, they’re not being used, then no one’s going to know about them. So it’s really important for us to work with registrars like 101 and 101’s competition to make sure the new TLDs are being presented at time of search and like Anthony said, you know, using that vertical play.
So for instance, you know, if I’m a small business and I’m a plumbing company, if I’m typing in my search, I’m Joe Smith plumbing, I really hope that I’m being presented by something similar to a .PLUMBING because if he didn’t know about that, then he might find out a year later. And that is a short, specific, meaningful name. That’s why I kind of talked about the vertical play and how important it is. And in fact, to make it easier for Registrars and even end users, we created a website called great.domains, and great.domains is a great site for really anyone to go to check out all of our TLDs listed in those verticals that, as Anthony alluded to, different taglines for TLDs and messages for who should this one go to, but more importantly, who’s actually using these TLDs. And it has all sorts of screen grabs of homepages, of folks, you know, from a food truck to a small to medium size business to large corporations like Barclays, using new top-level domains and I’d urge you guys have a look at that. And you know, talk to 101 if you have any questions or are looking for more opportunities in that respect. So that’s really on the marketing side of things.
The other part that I heard from Anthony’s question was TLD acquisition. And again, I spoke a little about it at the beginning, but we’re always looking for opportunities to grow and expand. As I said in my opening, we saw the opportunity with Rightside, which was a great fit but we’re also seeing opportunities come to fruition, like .TRAVEL to kind of add to the arsenal of our suite. And then finally, you know, really what are we doing with the IP community. I don’t want to get too detailed, right now because I know a lot of this webinars will be focused on DPML, but yeah, working with you guys, working through the Registrars but for you guys with DPML.
And I don’t know if many of the folks on the phone know this, but DPML was formed, as I said about six, almost seven years ago, really, was when we put pen to paper and you know, these trademark community owners urged ICANN for a fourth or fifth RPM or rights protection mechanism for them, to protect their interests, and blocking was one of those services. And ICANN did not fulfill that obligation. We saw this as an opportunity. We, meaning Identity Digital Registry and we went ahead and created this DPML for the point of preventative. Really the point behind the DPML is and continues to be, to prevent cybersquatting. And folks it has worked. We are seeing some of the lowest abusive statistics in our TLDs. So yeah, I mean that’s some of the ways we work with the IP community and continuing to add new features including the Homographic Protection. And hopefully, in 2019 we’ll be adding another feature, Registry Locks. So we’re continuing to invest. We think it’s important to keep the interest of the brands and trademarks at the forefront. So hopefully that answers your question, Anthony.
Anthony: That does. Thank you. That actually is a good segue into the DPML section here. And you did allude to putting pen to paper about seven years ago. We are coming up on the five year anniversary of that product launching and we’re currently talking to our clients about renewal options and what renewal looks like with many of them coming up in the first quarter. Our clients here at 101 have purchased hundreds of these DPMLs over the last few years and spending quite a bit of money on the product. And I agree that it’s worked very well for trademark holders. You do see very low instances of abuse. Obviously for those that are protected, their specific mark, really no abuse and we have seen quite a few use the override function to actually take names out of the block and use certain names, and I can tell you that in full transparency at 101, we have all of our DPML blocks in place and we have overridden quite a few names to use them for purposes both externally and internally. And I suspect that you guys are seeing a lot of that with other trademark owners as well as time goes by. Is that a fair assumption?
Matt: Yeah, it is definitely a fair assumption. You know, you talked about overrides. That was something that was really important to us. We created DPML and the fact that, you know, we wanted brands and trademarks to be able to come in with a valid trademark or SMD and say, okay, I just want to block everything across Identity Digital TLDs. I just can’t think about it right now, there’s so much going on. And then once the dust settles with the new TLD program, because I feel like the program, really snuck up on a lot of us, and it, and it went live and you know, everybody survived. So that was a good thing. But we also, in the back of our minds, we wanted to say, well, if you’re a company like Apple, the Apple Computer Company and you wanted to purchase a DPML, and that’s public, they went ahead and did it, but you know, in two years, three years down the road, yeah, they all, they launched the Apple Watch. Well, we would love for them to be able to say, you know what, I want everything else blocked in the TLD portfolio and override .WATCH.
And again, we’re not expecting brands and trademarks, and this is a really important point, we were never expecting brands and trademarks just to ditch their legacy TLDs and their complete branding strategy. What we challenged the brands and trademarks to do and we continued to do is look for some new creative and innovative way to use these. So, you know, apple.watch obviously great name, they did in fact override and I know for a short time, when they were marketing it, it was pointing to the apple.com website and that’s okay because typing in apple.watch is creative, it’s innovative, it’s marketed. We don’t care, it doesn’t bother us that it’s a redirect or if you’re a small or medium sized business and you want to have a marketing or promotional idea, you know, use one of the TLDs even if it’s for a temporary promotion. But that’s the type of stuff that really helps, I think brands and trademarks differentiate themselves from the competition. So it was really important for us to add that element into the DPML.
Anthony: Great. You mentioned Apple, apple.news comes to mind for me. For those of you that have iPhones, which is half of the population I believe, if you send a link on your news app in Apple you are using apple.news, correct?
Matt: Yeah, they are actually. And I’ve seen that before and Anthony, thanks for pointing that out. But, you know, it really is cool to see that when that pops up and seeing the URL as apple.new. So again, another creative way that you know, a major global brand is using that. So thank you for pointing that out.
Anthony: Yeah, that’s awesome. So for those who don’t know exactly what DPML is, can we take a step back and just explain a little bit how it works?
Matt: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, about five and a half years ago when DPML came out, it was pretty simple. It was, as long as the brand or trademark at a valid SMD file, I believe that science stands for signed mark data, issued by the trademark clearinghouse or TMCH you may have seen for short, you were eligible to block that particular second level string across all of Identity Digital TLDs, owned and operated. There were a couple of nuances and rules for the DPML when we first came out, so it only applied or it only covered standard price names. And there was a lot of back and forth with, you know, it only covers standard, why doesn’t it cover premium? Well, 90 – I want to say like 96 or 97 percent of our names were at a standard price, so they were covered a nearly 100 percent.
And for those that it turned out to be a premium, what we said was, well, okay, just go ahead and register the name if it’s not blocked. Because again, a premium name doesn’t necessarily mean these names are $10,000. You know, a premium name, gain, depending on the Registrar, could be you know, 60 bucks, it could be 50 bucks depending on what Registrar you choose. So we just thought if it was really important to you and if it’s something that was going to keep you up at night, you know, go ahead and register it. And quite honestly it worked out quite well. So that’s kind of our legacy PDML in a nutshell. One term across all of Identity Digital’s TLDs standard price owned and operated. And again, as Anthony alluded to with the override, you can go ahead and do that at any time while keeping the rest of your blocks intact.
About three years ago, which I’m sure you’ve heard too, we came up with another iteration of DPML, and that was called DPML Plus. We said, all right, well we took three years of feedback and saying, well, you should cover premiums, you should add various. So you know, the community spoke and we listened. So DPML Plus is a little bit different. The DPML Plus is one term, but again, using the same rules as of the SMD, but it also includes three variants and those three variants can either be a misspell or contained of that variable. These blocks, they also cover both standard and premium names. So Legacy was just standard name, one block or one term, DPML Plus, one plus your three. And it includes standard and premium names.
The DPML Plus was a little bit higher in costs for obvious reasons because we’re getting so much more value. And again, that’s all up to the particular retail Registrar to come up with that pricing. What I will say about pricing on both Legacy and Plus, you know, we really tried to break it out for everyone back when we first launched and if you look at it, we tried to keep the per term per TLD at about $3. And at that price point folks, I mean if you were a brand new trademark owner and tried to register all 240 TLDs, you know, it’s not coming near to that set price. So when you break it down, you know, it covers your five years of coverage, your 10 years plus three variants, it shakes out to that $3, $4 range, which we thought was very fair and what we’re definitely proud of that price point.
Anthony: Yeah. Looking at it from that perspective, it essentially to me, it’s a very low-cost registration, that you’re registering, you’re blocking or a for lack of better term, registering names that remain inactive until we want to use them for that much, much cheaper price point. And there’s definitely a benefit for that because when a trademark holder comes in and looks at Identity Digital, what we said 240 plus strings currently?
Matt: Right. We have about, we have 241 to be exact.
Anthony: 241. So I was close. It is a daunting task and it’s daunting for a client’s checkbook, to think, okay, do I need to register all of these and what is the cost of doing that versus the DPML blocking product, which is much more economical. I wanted to confirm the pricing terms for these products. If I heard correctly, were five years for those standard DPMLs and 10 years for the DPML Plus, correct?
Matt: Yeah. I said, thank you, Anthony, for pointing that out. I think I was remiss in saying the terms. So yeah, so it’s five years for legacy and 10 years for Plus. And I recall one thing that’s important is if you are just say 3 years in, in terms of a legacy, you can go ahead and renew, you can renew that at that time for a max of 10 years. So it really works like a registration so I think the rules of the registration are the same, you can renew for up to 10 years.
Anthony: Great, great. Thank you for clarifying that. Now, one of the features that I’m most curious about is this homograph protection, which you mentioned earlier. In doing a little research, I did understand what, a homograph was and it’s actually something that we’ve dealt with at 101. Can you go in a little about what that is and how that works and what trademark owners should be on the lookout for?
Matt: Yeah. So really for the trademarks and brands, I mean, again, for your blocks, it’s business as usual. I mean, even today, if you have a DPML legacy or a DPML Plus through 101domain, you’re already being covered for homographic protection. And basically, you know, in a nutshell, you know, our system will analyze the content of each of the SLDs, the second levels, and we break it down to individual characters, which are hundreds, sometimes even thousands of different characters. And then each character is spun against the Unicode list of confusable characters because that’s what it’s all about, is these guys are sophisticated enough or these bad actors are sophisticated enough to spin this into different languages and permutation and register these names. So what we’ve done is we’ve built the system that we take each second level, spin them, come out with thousands upon thousands of results and have those automatically blocked in our DPML.
Anthony: Okay. So with 101domain, in the 101, the 0 or the O can be a different character in a different character set essentially.
Matt: That is absolutely a perfect example of how that would work. Yeah.
Anthony: And that’s what we’ve seen. We’ve seen registrations come in, even into our own system. That are registering 101domain and using different characters that are really unrecognizable to the normal user, the normal viewer. This feature is great. It’s a question that keeps coming up, with clients more and more. And something that our accounts team is a train to discuss and build a plan around. So I’m really glad and happy to see that you guys are including this in the DPML product and you said it’s already included.
Matt: You guys already have, yeah so anybody that has DPML or DPML Plus, it’s automatically covered in this now. And again guys, if there are any questions you want to clarify that, you know, I would encourage you to contact your 101 account manager and then if they have questions they can contact me. But what I wanted to interject with, you know, we use an industry term, I think it’s an industry term, like confusingly similar and hopefully, a lot of us have also heard of that. And that really takes that kind of off the table because we want to make sure, you know, there are no bad actors and to get in the spirit. Again, DPML is to prevent cybersquatting, well, if we didn’t do this then, you know, maybe it would be, there’d be a chink in the armor. So we didn’t want to have that to happen with the brands and trademarks and we went ahead and did that.
Anthony: Great. Great. And I believe, something to let our clients know and those interested in purchasing, we actually can generate a list. So if you were to give us a mark, we can generate a list of the homograph variations, I believe in your system. Is that, am I understanding that correctly?
Matt: Yes. You are. Yes.
Anthony: Great. And we’ve done this for clients and it is eye-opening to see what the variations are and how closely these terms look to each other, with these different characters. It’s very much a nuance and to the average user getting an email, a phishing email or things like that, it really can go undetected in many cases.
So the pricing for the DPML, you alluded about the price per domain name. And in full disclosure, the pricing at 101domain is $5,495 for the five-year DPML and $10,995 for the DPML Plus, which is the 10 year, so roughly comes out to a thousand dollars plus or minus per year. I do know and we’ve sent out communication to our clients about a price increase that’s coming down the line on January first. Can you talk a little bit about this and where that price increase came from?
Matt: Sure. Great question. So yeah, so we are on January first we have some price adjustments going into effect that will affect both the Legacy and the Plus and you know, really it, if you want to use the term justification, well, you know, about a year and a half ago, as you guys all know, we acquired an additional 40 plus TLDs from Rightside. We just recently added .TRAVEL. We’ve added like we just spoke about Anthony, the holographic protection. So we feel like these features and features that we’re rolling out here in the additional TLDs adding to the suite of services, you know, just more in line with really what the industry standards should say.
Anthony: Okay, that makes sense to me. So my final question here is we’ve covered a lot of ground here and I can imagine a number of people on this call and thank you guys again for joining us, are sitting here trying to distill this information and thinking about if they’re not the decision maker and purchasing this product, how they go back to their decision makers, explain this product, explain the value to their internal stakeholders. I know if someone on my staff came to me and said we need to spend five or 10,000 or more dollars on something like this, I’m going to want, you know, an explanation and probably have some questions. Can you leave our listeners with maybe an elevator pitch type of breakdown?
Matt: Yeah. You know, look, I don’t want to, you know, it’s not necessarily an elevator pitch. Here’s what I would say, I would take it from two angles. One, I would say I’d go back to 101domain, account manager and work on a kind of a detailed plan of really what I was talking about. What does it come with, what are the features, what are the benefits, the cost breakdown. Because I really think that will shed some light on the people who you were trying to get the budget from. And that’s really the easier part, the one that I really want to talk about, which I really think resonate or at least I hope resonates, are two particular examples. There are two different names in the last six months. Home.loans and vacation.rentals that sold in the new TLD space to entrepreneurs or small businesses for just a bit over $500,000 for those names.
It was great sales. We were really happy with that. And so what we did was we did a little triage and we said, okay, well who owned it, who owned homeloans.com, kind of who missed out on that domain name. And that was WellsFargo. And you know, thinks to themselves, they’re going to think to themselves, oh wow I could have just bought this same for x amount of dollars. And what happens in 10 years when they have to buy it for a few million dollars. And this entrepreneur saw the opportunity. It’s one of the highest searched terms on google and they went ahead and snatch it up, whereas, you know, kind of a missed opportunity for that brand and trademark. And the same thing happened with vacation.rentals. Again, a highly searched term in google. I know both of them at one point, I haven’t checked yet, they were both ranking on page one of Google search. That was another name that got taken by an entrepreneur. Again, little over $500,000 and that was a name, I think that term was owned by expedia-homeaway.com. So looking at those examples, those are just great examples of brands and trademarks missing out on that particular opportunity to really protect themselves.
Anthony: Okay. Yeah. I did see those in the news. And those are quite impressive, those sales. That really tells me that new gTLDs are definitely here to stay and continue to gain traction in the marketplace. And as a brand, you definitely want to make sure you have a strategy around this and the DPML is one product that very much it’s in that strategy for a number of trademark holders and that’s kind of the perspective we see on it. Well, Matt, I thank you for your time today and we’re going to turn it over now to a little bit of Q&A with our audience. So we’ll start going through those questions right now. Doesn’t look like we have any questions at the moment. I’m going to give everybody a couple more minutes, to see if anything comes in. Okay. So here’s a question, and thank you, Kevin, for your question.
DPML Q & A
Question: “How do we transition from a standard registration to a DPML?”
Matt: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Anthony. And I hope I’m answering this properly, Kevin. So it sounds like you want to potentially look at DPML, to replace just one of your standard registrations that you have with, with 101domain. Is that how you’re reading that, Anthony?
Anthony: Uh, yes, that’s how I’m reading it.
Matt: So again, when we talked about the rule set a little bit earlier in our discussion, and as long as Kevin, as long as you have a valid SMD signed mark data file issued by the trademark clearinghouse, TMCH, both services 101domain can help you with, you’d be able to somewhat upgrade to a DPML and that label that you might have a registration in, would then be covered under all, you know, all the Identity Digital’s top level domains.
Anthony: So in that case, Matt, if he were to let that, to not renew that registration, would it get absorbed by the DPML?
Matt: We’d have to, yeah so we’d have to pick that one up. Yes. It would automatically, upon expiration, that particular domain name would then be automatically picked up because you already have that label blocked in the DPML service that you’ve purchased. Yes, and just to be clear guys with all of these little nuances and if we’re upgrading or letting a name expired to then be picked up by the DPML, we have a very thorough, operations and development teams that can confirm all this information because I know how scary it could be. I mean, I didn’t mention this in the beginning, but I worked for 14 plus years at Corporation Service Company, CSC, dealing with brands and trademarks. We can absolutely walk you through the process to ensure a 100 percent transition. So there’s no anxiety about letting a domain name expire and wondering if it’s going to be covered by DPML.
Anthony: Great. Another question here from Joseph.
Question: “With the DPML Plus and the three strings, three additional strings, they have to be misspellings or could it be a something like apple and then do an additional string apple tv? Would that be covered under a DPML?”
Matt: Great question. So with DPML plus, the value that we have is you can have, you know, the first term is obviously the exact match. So we’ll take apple for the sake of example, Anthony, and then your customer can add, either misspells, or others and those would be, you know, three of those and if you guys want more, if you say, well listen, I have my primary, I have my plus three, but there’s another three or six or nine that I care about. You can also do that by another additional smaller fee, but will follow the same rule set and I’d encourage you if that’s the case, to just talk to 101 about what those retail prices would be.
Anthony: Yeah, that’s some great flexibility. We have some clients that have 3 and we have one or two that have five or six just because they’ve seen in their portfolio, of all those variations repeatedly being registered, so it’s definitely helpful. Follow up question to that.
Question: “Do the additional strings have to include the additional mark then?”
Matt: Yeah. So, well with the contains, you’d obviously have trademark plus a term. Misspell obviously could just be a misspelling of that term. So no, it doesn’t have to be in there. But it has to be, you know, it has to be apple, maybe “a-p-l-e” or “a-p-p-l-l-e-e” or something like that. So it’s got to be an iteration that follows along that trademark.
Anthony: Great. Another question here.
Question: “What about multiple trademark terms for which I want to use DPML? Do I need to purchase a separate a DPML for each order is one purchase cover multiple terms?”
Matt: Well, a couple of ways to answer that. One, if they’re all unique terms then yeah, you’d have to do a separate DPML for those unique terms. But again, if it’s, you know, a unique term and then you have a couple of terms, that either contains or misspells and you could choose the DPML plus.
Anthony: Great. Okay. I think that’s all the questions. We’ll just wait another minute to see if anything else comes in. If you have any further questions, guys. We have our account managers here on staff, they’re very well versed in this product. And as Matt said, Identity Digital team, we work very closely with on some of the nuances of these things are standing by with us as well. I do want to mention again, the homographs report is something that we are providing to clients complimentary at the request. So if you’d like to see that, if you have an existing DPML with us or if you’re considering purchasing, we are happy to run that homograph report to show you those additional terms that you’re able to block outside of the exact match string or the contains or the specific misspelling that you’re considering as well. That’s super helpful report. Really can give you a good view of additional items to watch out for.
All right, well I think that’s all the questions we have. I want to thank everybody for joining today and for the questions and we hope that you have some clarity with DPML and again, we’re standing by. For any questions that you have, feel free to reach out to us. You can send us an email at [email protected], or contact your account manager or give us a call at area code 760-444-8674. Everybody have a great day, happy holidays and we’ll see you all again soon.
Matt: Thank you.